Post by Captain Bob Dawg on Jul 27, 2012 10:25:57 GMT -5
Warning pretty dry and boring.
Titled, "One more thing"
Hey there.
I just wanted to say that having spoken with Frosti at length, it seems like your opinion of me is pretty sour. I really want to get to the bottom of why this is. We didn't keep to our word, we switched from Mike to Judd. But that's because I didn't trust you guys were going to keep to yours.
The problem was that Judd actually told Mike he was "in danger". Moreover, somebody leaked to Frosti the details of the split vote. Meaning that somebody amongst us wasn't trustworthy. It really ruined everything because Mike came back and he was upset. Following that, I didn't really feel like trusting you and Judd was a safe bet so I suggested we switch to Judd and keep somebody who could be trusted, closer.
So on that grounds, I don't think it was unjustified given the circumstances. All I'm trying to do is play the game. Frosti claimed to have an idol and we needed the vote split. I didn't want either you or Judd gone, as I have stated countless times. And I still don't.
As far as the other issue goes, it seems to center around the chat we had with Ace and Jay during the doll game. But here's the point everybody misses about that: It was intended purely as a means to help Ted out.
Me and Ted are buddies, or at least I was under the impression we were. We've been close all game. He came through for us in dodgeball and I really respected that. I like Ted a lot. I respect him, and we've always been close. I was rather hoping we'd get put on the same team but tribal shuffle placed him very alone on a team all fighting one another.
While that does make him relatively safe, our problem (and this was Ted's concern, as much as mine) was that we didn't fully understand the nature of alliances on the red team (now Talgeni). We knew Kourtney and Wanda were close and we thought it was possible Kim would work alongside them to help with the Semhar feud. We knew the first vote would be easy, that was Phillip. Nobody contended that.
The second vote was a problem. So I spoke to Ted at length about this, and I probably still have the chat dialogue if you need proof. I told him that I didn't trust Kourtney, who in spite of being extremely friendly is a very dangerous player. I won't get into those issues here, everybody knows all about that but there are specifics of why I find her to be such a problem.
And I said that maybe, in order to secure Ted's long term survival in the game we should attempt to eliminate Kourtney (who we also believed to have an idol. These damn idol stories are getting silly now). What was a simple decision got blown very out of proportion later. It's really frustrating because it was all about protecting Ted, who Judd told me was your friend as well as his.
Judd came to me a few days ago about his fears he would be the first boot. I said...well it doesn't look good. And I gave it some thought. And I thought in that instance, I like Judd. Maybe I can work something out. I told him Frosti would be the first target and not to worry. And that I'd try to carry him to the merge. I have this dialogue saved too possibly if you need it as well. In that instance he said Ted had vouched for me as trustworthy and he wanted to trust me too. I liked that and wanted to work with you.
In any case, my friendship with Ted led me into this decision. I asked him who he felt he could trust and that if he wanted, we could engineer a vote against Kourtney by just securing a majority on the red tribe. You have to ask yourself why I'd even try to manipulate the red vote at all? It wasn't about who should go (hard to believe since it was Kourtney) but rather how could we better ensure Ted's survival? I felt like I wanted to join up with him in the merge and maybe we could vote together because he told me a while back he wanted to go far with me.
And so he told me he could get Ace and possibly Jay on board. He was less sure about Ace. Jay was a dead cert. And then we decided if we knew Kim was the target, we could have her join along and gain a majority. The first problem was that Kim was stubborn and told us flat out not to get involved with her, she would play her own game, she was survivor master and a whole other host of arrogant bullshit.
So that fell apart.
We wondered if we could get Semhar instead and she said no, she was voting Kim. It was a done deal.
So we sat down, Ted and I and we decided that if Kim wasn't going to co-operate, she was a bigger threat than Kourtney. Our plan changed, and the vote would be on Kim instead. We did want to push to make Kourtney seem like a target hoping that if she had the idol she'd play it.
And so Ted agreed. We'd do what we always were going to, have their team eliminate Frosti for us and have our team eliminate Kourtney and Kim for them. The only people involved were myself, Mary, Ted and Jay at this point. We didn't bring other people in because we still didn't know who fully to trust and we didn't want to slam more people in as being involved. It seemed a safer bet.
Finally, Ted told us Ace was in but he wouldn't vote Kourtney if Kim or Semhar wasn't up to making the majority. Fair call. It was getting quite late, Ted logged off and the challenge was about to start.
We, by which I mean myself and Mary were talking and saying Ted isn't here. What should we do? We decided to go ahead anyway. After all, Ted had informed us Ace and Jay were in right? We started the chat with Ace and Jay. And they were a little confused. That was my first worry.
We explained how we thought Ted had been over this plan, how we both could help each other in the challenge and help our tribal votes. They agreed and we worked together to fulfill our objective. The only objective we had, and this is the absolute truth, was to eliminate Frosti, Kim and Kourtney. We did it. Go look at the attacks on the dolls. We calculated it precisely.
The problem was, we also started a chat with you and our own tribe. I think that's the thing that made people more sour than anything. But we were never trying to pretend to Ace, Ted and Jay that we only had one chat. In fact, I'm pretty sure I even said "don't worry guys, we're in a chat with the tribe. We can have them attack such and such."
In my mind this was always part of the plan, and not some act of double-crossing. So it bothers me that Ace has gone around talking about that like I was the true puppet master, manipulating everybody every which way. I was merely sticking to an agreement I had made with Ted and which I mistakenly thought (because I was told) that every party there was involved in.
We decided it was best to let one of us win immunity. So we engineered the attacks to such a way that it would result in that. In the end, Ted was the favorite because he had the most ropes still left and we made a firm agreement, let's give it to Ted. We weren't trying to win immunity, or manipulate, or do anything deceptive or evil. We were sticking to a plan we had made well in advance, one that was not set to hurt either you, Judd or Ted (and I believed you all were working pretty closely). Furthermore, it didn't hurt Ace or Jay either. And them being in themselves a small grouping on the tribe, I genuinely thought they might appreciate that.
Apparently not. Since that challenge I've been portrayed as the master of all evil and I'm not particularly happy about it. In future, I'll keep my hands out of protecting friends on other tribes. I wanted a solution that was mutually beneficial for all of us. But they voted Semhar anyway, because it all got fucked up with rumor and deception and whatever else.
I don't know which of those parties are to blame but from what I'm hearing, I suspect it's Ace. I really think Jay is straight down the line. Me and Jay have friendly chats a lot and they don't tend to be about strategy or rumor. It's quite nice. As for Ted, I still honestly trust him. He's done right by me for most of the game.
I know that you and Ted had a quarrel because of the vote with Misty. He told me that. And he told me he was giving immunity to you as a result. I fully supported his decision, I wanted him to repair the damage because I wanted to work with you guys and not have everybody at each other's throats.
The grand master plan was to protect Ted, and to protect you and Judd. Ted was safe anyway though the plan never went through. You and Judd would have been completely safe if people hadn't leaked the details of the split vote and if Judd hadn't rushed to Mike to tell him he was in danger. That really turned things sour, and I'm disappointed that it happened. It was a simple plan that benefited us all, and I don't know why it fell to pieces.
The fact is, the only people to know about the Mike split at the time were: Me, Mary, You, Judd and Ted. So one of those people spilled everything to Frosti. And I believed it to be you or Judd. Maybe it was even Ted. I don't know who my friends are right now.
So I decided my friends were the people I had fought with for so long, and we went for a route that would protect that. Because I can't trust people who do untrustworthy things.
Everything in this message is honest and truthful. If you need proof I can provide it. I don't want this nonsense blown out of proportion and Frosti is selling it that I'm now everybody's number one hit. I don't trust him so I'm not totally worried but some of the dialogues he shared between you and him concerned me.
I want to know what your problem with me is outside of the issues I raised here, and I'll answer anything you want to ask.
Thanks for reading.
I just wanted to say that having spoken with Frosti at length, it seems like your opinion of me is pretty sour. I really want to get to the bottom of why this is. We didn't keep to our word, we switched from Mike to Judd. But that's because I didn't trust you guys were going to keep to yours.
The problem was that Judd actually told Mike he was "in danger". Moreover, somebody leaked to Frosti the details of the split vote. Meaning that somebody amongst us wasn't trustworthy. It really ruined everything because Mike came back and he was upset. Following that, I didn't really feel like trusting you and Judd was a safe bet so I suggested we switch to Judd and keep somebody who could be trusted, closer.
So on that grounds, I don't think it was unjustified given the circumstances. All I'm trying to do is play the game. Frosti claimed to have an idol and we needed the vote split. I didn't want either you or Judd gone, as I have stated countless times. And I still don't.
As far as the other issue goes, it seems to center around the chat we had with Ace and Jay during the doll game. But here's the point everybody misses about that: It was intended purely as a means to help Ted out.
Me and Ted are buddies, or at least I was under the impression we were. We've been close all game. He came through for us in dodgeball and I really respected that. I like Ted a lot. I respect him, and we've always been close. I was rather hoping we'd get put on the same team but tribal shuffle placed him very alone on a team all fighting one another.
While that does make him relatively safe, our problem (and this was Ted's concern, as much as mine) was that we didn't fully understand the nature of alliances on the red team (now Talgeni). We knew Kourtney and Wanda were close and we thought it was possible Kim would work alongside them to help with the Semhar feud. We knew the first vote would be easy, that was Phillip. Nobody contended that.
The second vote was a problem. So I spoke to Ted at length about this, and I probably still have the chat dialogue if you need proof. I told him that I didn't trust Kourtney, who in spite of being extremely friendly is a very dangerous player. I won't get into those issues here, everybody knows all about that but there are specifics of why I find her to be such a problem.
And I said that maybe, in order to secure Ted's long term survival in the game we should attempt to eliminate Kourtney (who we also believed to have an idol. These damn idol stories are getting silly now). What was a simple decision got blown very out of proportion later. It's really frustrating because it was all about protecting Ted, who Judd told me was your friend as well as his.
Judd came to me a few days ago about his fears he would be the first boot. I said...well it doesn't look good. And I gave it some thought. And I thought in that instance, I like Judd. Maybe I can work something out. I told him Frosti would be the first target and not to worry. And that I'd try to carry him to the merge. I have this dialogue saved too possibly if you need it as well. In that instance he said Ted had vouched for me as trustworthy and he wanted to trust me too. I liked that and wanted to work with you.
In any case, my friendship with Ted led me into this decision. I asked him who he felt he could trust and that if he wanted, we could engineer a vote against Kourtney by just securing a majority on the red tribe. You have to ask yourself why I'd even try to manipulate the red vote at all? It wasn't about who should go (hard to believe since it was Kourtney) but rather how could we better ensure Ted's survival? I felt like I wanted to join up with him in the merge and maybe we could vote together because he told me a while back he wanted to go far with me.
And so he told me he could get Ace and possibly Jay on board. He was less sure about Ace. Jay was a dead cert. And then we decided if we knew Kim was the target, we could have her join along and gain a majority. The first problem was that Kim was stubborn and told us flat out not to get involved with her, she would play her own game, she was survivor master and a whole other host of arrogant bullshit.
So that fell apart.
We wondered if we could get Semhar instead and she said no, she was voting Kim. It was a done deal.
So we sat down, Ted and I and we decided that if Kim wasn't going to co-operate, she was a bigger threat than Kourtney. Our plan changed, and the vote would be on Kim instead. We did want to push to make Kourtney seem like a target hoping that if she had the idol she'd play it.
And so Ted agreed. We'd do what we always were going to, have their team eliminate Frosti for us and have our team eliminate Kourtney and Kim for them. The only people involved were myself, Mary, Ted and Jay at this point. We didn't bring other people in because we still didn't know who fully to trust and we didn't want to slam more people in as being involved. It seemed a safer bet.
Finally, Ted told us Ace was in but he wouldn't vote Kourtney if Kim or Semhar wasn't up to making the majority. Fair call. It was getting quite late, Ted logged off and the challenge was about to start.
We, by which I mean myself and Mary were talking and saying Ted isn't here. What should we do? We decided to go ahead anyway. After all, Ted had informed us Ace and Jay were in right? We started the chat with Ace and Jay. And they were a little confused. That was my first worry.
We explained how we thought Ted had been over this plan, how we both could help each other in the challenge and help our tribal votes. They agreed and we worked together to fulfill our objective. The only objective we had, and this is the absolute truth, was to eliminate Frosti, Kim and Kourtney. We did it. Go look at the attacks on the dolls. We calculated it precisely.
The problem was, we also started a chat with you and our own tribe. I think that's the thing that made people more sour than anything. But we were never trying to pretend to Ace, Ted and Jay that we only had one chat. In fact, I'm pretty sure I even said "don't worry guys, we're in a chat with the tribe. We can have them attack such and such."
In my mind this was always part of the plan, and not some act of double-crossing. So it bothers me that Ace has gone around talking about that like I was the true puppet master, manipulating everybody every which way. I was merely sticking to an agreement I had made with Ted and which I mistakenly thought (because I was told) that every party there was involved in.
We decided it was best to let one of us win immunity. So we engineered the attacks to such a way that it would result in that. In the end, Ted was the favorite because he had the most ropes still left and we made a firm agreement, let's give it to Ted. We weren't trying to win immunity, or manipulate, or do anything deceptive or evil. We were sticking to a plan we had made well in advance, one that was not set to hurt either you, Judd or Ted (and I believed you all were working pretty closely). Furthermore, it didn't hurt Ace or Jay either. And them being in themselves a small grouping on the tribe, I genuinely thought they might appreciate that.
Apparently not. Since that challenge I've been portrayed as the master of all evil and I'm not particularly happy about it. In future, I'll keep my hands out of protecting friends on other tribes. I wanted a solution that was mutually beneficial for all of us. But they voted Semhar anyway, because it all got fucked up with rumor and deception and whatever else.
I don't know which of those parties are to blame but from what I'm hearing, I suspect it's Ace. I really think Jay is straight down the line. Me and Jay have friendly chats a lot and they don't tend to be about strategy or rumor. It's quite nice. As for Ted, I still honestly trust him. He's done right by me for most of the game.
I know that you and Ted had a quarrel because of the vote with Misty. He told me that. And he told me he was giving immunity to you as a result. I fully supported his decision, I wanted him to repair the damage because I wanted to work with you guys and not have everybody at each other's throats.
The grand master plan was to protect Ted, and to protect you and Judd. Ted was safe anyway though the plan never went through. You and Judd would have been completely safe if people hadn't leaked the details of the split vote and if Judd hadn't rushed to Mike to tell him he was in danger. That really turned things sour, and I'm disappointed that it happened. It was a simple plan that benefited us all, and I don't know why it fell to pieces.
The fact is, the only people to know about the Mike split at the time were: Me, Mary, You, Judd and Ted. So one of those people spilled everything to Frosti. And I believed it to be you or Judd. Maybe it was even Ted. I don't know who my friends are right now.
So I decided my friends were the people I had fought with for so long, and we went for a route that would protect that. Because I can't trust people who do untrustworthy things.
Everything in this message is honest and truthful. If you need proof I can provide it. I don't want this nonsense blown out of proportion and Frosti is selling it that I'm now everybody's number one hit. I don't trust him so I'm not totally worried but some of the dialogues he shared between you and him concerned me.
I want to know what your problem with me is outside of the issues I raised here, and I'll answer anything you want to ask.
Thanks for reading.
Titled, "One more thing"
Mary isn't my "puppet". I resent that claim a lot. Mary is an independent person who I am working with because we share common interests and usually agree on game related issues. Many of the decisions I have made have been discussed at length with Mary, and many of our eventual plans changed based on her suggestions.
Neither of us is "controlling" the other. We are both discussing, brainstorming and reaching a consensus to which we entirely agree. Nobody is a puppet on our side, and I really don't like this image. I haven't done anything all game other than that silly doll challenge to paint me in this light.
Kourtney, who eliminated two of her biggest threats from the tribe after day one and blamed it on socialization issues, has. The most I've done for all of the game is fought my hardest in each and every challenge. If you want me gone because of that, I'd appreciate the honesty. But I'm not manipulating people, I'm not some grand master schemer with a whole host of allies and I don't have a damn immunity idol.
Leave those things at the door. None of them are true.
Neither of us is "controlling" the other. We are both discussing, brainstorming and reaching a consensus to which we entirely agree. Nobody is a puppet on our side, and I really don't like this image. I haven't done anything all game other than that silly doll challenge to paint me in this light.
Kourtney, who eliminated two of her biggest threats from the tribe after day one and blamed it on socialization issues, has. The most I've done for all of the game is fought my hardest in each and every challenge. If you want me gone because of that, I'd appreciate the honesty. But I'm not manipulating people, I'm not some grand master schemer with a whole host of allies and I don't have a damn immunity idol.
Leave those things at the door. None of them are true.
Alright bro. That was a long ass PM but I got through it all. My issue with you was when the plan changed. I was fine with voting Mike because really if Frosti played the idol I knew someone from the Desterado 5 was leaving
Based on your claims it was obviously a mistake to believe you'd pick the desterado 5 over me and Judd but I felt pretty strongly that you'd do that. You had no reason to keep us over them so it was my hope to do whatsoever in my power to get a desterado out.
When the split vote plan changed I didn't want to vote Frosti because I had no idea who you guys were voting. Yes I was safe but for all I knew you could be voting Judd instead. I wasn't going to vote out someone who I felt was on the outs over my chance to get rid of someone that I felt you'd keep over me.
It was foolish of me to think you would leave all the power in mine and Judd's hand and I will repeat that I intended to just vote Mike and have you all vote Frosti and none of this negativity towards you came up until then.
I don't know where you got Judd telling Mike. I was the one that told mike. Judd followed your little plan and voted Frosti even though he assured he that he was voting Mike.
I'll be on aim later if you want to ask me anything else. I know where I stand on this tribe and if I stood in a better light before this fiasco than oh well but im not sure I completely buy it.
Based on your claims it was obviously a mistake to believe you'd pick the desterado 5 over me and Judd but I felt pretty strongly that you'd do that. You had no reason to keep us over them so it was my hope to do whatsoever in my power to get a desterado out.
When the split vote plan changed I didn't want to vote Frosti because I had no idea who you guys were voting. Yes I was safe but for all I knew you could be voting Judd instead. I wasn't going to vote out someone who I felt was on the outs over my chance to get rid of someone that I felt you'd keep over me.
It was foolish of me to think you would leave all the power in mine and Judd's hand and I will repeat that I intended to just vote Mike and have you all vote Frosti and none of this negativity towards you came up until then.
I don't know where you got Judd telling Mike. I was the one that told mike. Judd followed your little plan and voted Frosti even though he assured he that he was voting Mike.
I'll be on aim later if you want to ask me anything else. I know where I stand on this tribe and if I stood in a better light before this fiasco than oh well but im not sure I completely buy it.
Well that makes sense and I appreciate the honesty. I'd still like a talk later though if you're around.
Mike told me that Judd gave him a message about it. That was the main issue. Frosti and Judd messaged him about the plan (which was still to vote Mike) and we were forced to change.
It seems I've stepped on people's toes when my whole intention was to try and win trust with you, Judd and Ted. It's annoying because I wanted to work with you and was hoping we could put tribal loyalties aside for this. I know that it seems suspicious but I obviously feel you have a stronger majority overall or I would never even risk it.
All of this has gotten way out of hand from what was a simple discussion about the best way to proceed with the new tribal mix. Originally it would have just been Frosti, then Judd, then yourself to vote off. But Judd coming to me about his worries and how he respected me and wanted to work with me changed everything. I wanted to reach out to that. Doing so has cost me a lot. In future I'll be more careful who I communicate to.
I'm disappointed that you shared so much of my conversations with people when I was never doing anything particularly dangerous to yourself to begin with. I wanted us to work alongside one another. Never was there a plan to attack your or remove you. And I have conversational proof of that. Me and Mary wanted you on our side.
And fair enough if you aren't good with that for whatever reason. I'd just like to know if there is a reason other than "you changed the plan."
We changed the plan because we couldn't trust you. And incidentally, we were right. Since you shared communication, broke the plan to others and ruined what we were working towards we were pretty right in not trusting you on that.
Originally we gave you all the power. If you wanted to you could've banded with Frosti and Judd and tied the vote towards somebody who wasn't Frosti. Forcing a tie between whoever you ultimately voted and Frosti. Since my concern was Frosti playing an idol (not out of the question since he got to Salsus) that would've forced whoever you voted off, out of the game.
We decided (a mutual decision that took some three hours of talking to reach) that it wasn't the best way to play it. Because we didn't trust you. There was a coldness in the air after the challenge. Nobody wanted to talk much or communicate. It was obvious something was up. It made us uncomfortable.
I now learn that you are friends with Frosti and Kourtney, so obviously you don't want to work against that alliance. Whilst I appreciate that, Frosti has tried to sell you out pretty hard today in order to save himself, offering himself up to ally with me and turn against you. So you know, friendship only runs so deep.
I'm just sorry we had to do all this messing about to establish things. And really, the only dishonest thing I've done all game was surrounding this vote. Everything else has been honesty through and through. I don't think calling me "the biggest liar" is a fair statement. There are much bigger liars in this game.
Mike told me that Judd gave him a message about it. That was the main issue. Frosti and Judd messaged him about the plan (which was still to vote Mike) and we were forced to change.
It seems I've stepped on people's toes when my whole intention was to try and win trust with you, Judd and Ted. It's annoying because I wanted to work with you and was hoping we could put tribal loyalties aside for this. I know that it seems suspicious but I obviously feel you have a stronger majority overall or I would never even risk it.
All of this has gotten way out of hand from what was a simple discussion about the best way to proceed with the new tribal mix. Originally it would have just been Frosti, then Judd, then yourself to vote off. But Judd coming to me about his worries and how he respected me and wanted to work with me changed everything. I wanted to reach out to that. Doing so has cost me a lot. In future I'll be more careful who I communicate to.
I'm disappointed that you shared so much of my conversations with people when I was never doing anything particularly dangerous to yourself to begin with. I wanted us to work alongside one another. Never was there a plan to attack your or remove you. And I have conversational proof of that. Me and Mary wanted you on our side.
And fair enough if you aren't good with that for whatever reason. I'd just like to know if there is a reason other than "you changed the plan."
We changed the plan because we couldn't trust you. And incidentally, we were right. Since you shared communication, broke the plan to others and ruined what we were working towards we were pretty right in not trusting you on that.
Originally we gave you all the power. If you wanted to you could've banded with Frosti and Judd and tied the vote towards somebody who wasn't Frosti. Forcing a tie between whoever you ultimately voted and Frosti. Since my concern was Frosti playing an idol (not out of the question since he got to Salsus) that would've forced whoever you voted off, out of the game.
We decided (a mutual decision that took some three hours of talking to reach) that it wasn't the best way to play it. Because we didn't trust you. There was a coldness in the air after the challenge. Nobody wanted to talk much or communicate. It was obvious something was up. It made us uncomfortable.
I now learn that you are friends with Frosti and Kourtney, so obviously you don't want to work against that alliance. Whilst I appreciate that, Frosti has tried to sell you out pretty hard today in order to save himself, offering himself up to ally with me and turn against you. So you know, friendship only runs so deep.
I'm just sorry we had to do all this messing about to establish things. And really, the only dishonest thing I've done all game was surrounding this vote. Everything else has been honesty through and through. I don't think calling me "the biggest liar" is a fair statement. There are much bigger liars in this game.
I'll be home later today and we can talk. I didn't mention the plan to Mike and didn't plan on doing anything other than voting Mike before the plan was changed.
Judd never told me he told Mike about the plan (the day before it changed) but then again he doesn't tell me a lot of things. I told Mike after things had changed about the plan because it didn't make sense that you were just letting him be held victim to mine and Judd's vote. Of course he knew that the plan had changed so he just nodded his head and acted surprised.
I did like our arrangement to work together I just couldn't fathom a scenario where if we lost the next challenge you'd say okay Mike it is time to go over okay Bob it is time to go.
And for the record had you told me you had decided to change the vote splitting to Judd and Frosti because Judd spilled the beans yes I would of been pissed but I would of voted Frosti to keep Judd safe and it atleast would of made sense to me.
But yea we'll talk when I get home if you're still around.
Judd never told me he told Mike about the plan (the day before it changed) but then again he doesn't tell me a lot of things. I told Mike after things had changed about the plan because it didn't make sense that you were just letting him be held victim to mine and Judd's vote. Of course he knew that the plan had changed so he just nodded his head and acted surprised.
I did like our arrangement to work together I just couldn't fathom a scenario where if we lost the next challenge you'd say okay Mike it is time to go over okay Bob it is time to go.
And for the record had you told me you had decided to change the vote splitting to Judd and Frosti because Judd spilled the beans yes I would of been pissed but I would of voted Frosti to keep Judd safe and it atleast would of made sense to me.
But yea we'll talk when I get home if you're still around.
